Legislature(2005 - 2006)CAPITOL 124

02/03/2005 05:00 PM House OIL & GAS


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Audio Topic
05:03:25 PM Start
05:04:54 PM Overview - Department of Revenue
06:14:49 PM Overview - Department of Natural Resources
06:47:58 PM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ Joint Overview by Dept. of Revenue TELECONFERENCED
Tax Division by Dan Dickenson
Dept. of Natural Resources by Mark Meyers
"Field Dev., what drives development and
exploration decisions and ELF?"
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
             HOUSE SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON OIL AND GAS                                                                           
                        February 3, 2005                                                                                        
                           5:03 p.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Vic Kohring, Chair                                                                                               
Representative Nancy Dahlstrom                                                                                                  
Representative Ralph Samuels                                                                                                    
Representative Berta Gardner                                                                                                    
Representative Lesil McGuire                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative Norman Rokeberg                                                                                                  
Representative Beth Kerttula                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
OTHER LEGISLATORS PRESENT                                                                                                     
Representative Jay Ramras                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                              
OVERVIEW: DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
OVERVIEW: DEPARTMENT OF NATURAL RESOURCES                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                              
No previous action to report                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
DAN DICKINSON, Director                                                                                                         
Tax Division                                                                                                                    
Department of Revenue                                                                                                           
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented an overview of the Economic Limit                                                                 
Factor                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
BILL VAN DYKE, Permitting/Unit Administrator                                                                                    
Division of Oil and Gas                                                                                                         
Department of Natural Resources                                                                                                 
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION   STATEMENT:   Presented   a   briefing   titled   "Field                                                              
Development: What Drives Exploration and Development Decisions?"                                                                
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR VIC  KOHRING called the House  Special Committee on  Oil and                                                            
Gas  meeting to  order at  5:03:25 PM.   Representatives  Kohring,                                                            
Dahlstrom,  Gardner,  and Samuels  were  present  at the  call  to                                                              
order.   Representative  McGuire  arrived as  the  meeting was  in                                                              
progress.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
^OVERVIEW - DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
5:04:54 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DAN  DICKINSON, Director,  Tax  Division,  Department of  Revenue,                                                              
said that  last year,  the state's  general fund  (GF) brought  in                                                              
$2.4  billion, of  which  $1.1 billion  were  from royalties,  and                                                              
about $1  billion from taxes.   Of the  taxes, about  $700 million                                                              
were  from the  production tax  and  the other  $300 million  were                                                              
from property  taxes and income  taxes.   He noted that  there are                                                              
about  $300 million  in  state revenues  that  are not  associated                                                              
with oil  and gas.  Focusing  on the production tax,  he explained                                                              
that it  is calculated  by multiplying  four values: the  wellhead                                                              
value  of  oil,  the  nonroyalty  barrels,  15  percent,  and  the                                                              
Economic  Limit Factor  (ELF).   He clarified  that the  ELF is  a                                                              
number between  zero and  one; therefore  if the  ELF is  zero the                                                              
whole  calculation  becomes  zero,  and  if the  ELF  is  one  the                                                              
company  pays the  full 15  percent.   He  said that  the ELF  was                                                              
placed  in the  equation because  [the state  government] did  not                                                              
want the  production tax to  be the incremental  cost that  shut a                                                              
well in.  The effect  has been that if a field has  high costs the                                                              
ELF goes to  zero; if a field  is producing more barrels  than are                                                              
needed to cover  costs, the ELF is greater than zero  and there is                                                              
a tax.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
5:09:22 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  DICKINSON stated  that  the ELF  is really  a  proxy for  the                                                              
production that the  company needed to cover its  costs, including                                                              
transportation  costs,  tariffs,  and  the wellhead  value.    The                                                              
company is  allowed to  deduct all of  those downstream  costs but                                                              
not any  of the  costs at  the production  field, where  investors                                                              
may have  invested tens  of billions  of dollars.   At  the fields                                                              
the companies  use the ELF to  have the oil [production]  tax free                                                              
if the production is below the ELF.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
5:10:31 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. DICKINSON said:                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     It's only the  production above the economic  limit that                                                                   
     bears a  tax, and  the more barrels  you have above  the                                                                   
     economic  limit, the higher  the tax  on you....  So the                                                                   
     notion of the  ELF was, it was a proxy and  it was going                                                                   
     to shield the  volume of oil that was required  to cover                                                                   
     the direct operating costs....                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR.  DICKINSON  mentioned that  in  1989,  a second  exponent  was                                                              
added  to ELF to  take into  account field  size  so that a  large                                                              
field  like Prudhoe  Bay, which  was producing  about 1.6  million                                                              
barrels a  day (b/d),  would bear  a high tax,  and a  small field                                                              
would bear  little or no tax.   He stated that after  this change,                                                              
the taxes  on Prudhoe Bay  and Kuparuk went  up, and taxes  on all                                                              
the other fields went down.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
5:12:21 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  DICKINSON said  that in  2005  there were  only three  fields                                                              
that were paying  significant production tax: Prudhoe  Bay, Alpine                                                              
and North Star each  had ELFs of about 0.8.   The next highest ELF                                                              
is Kuparuk with  an ELF of about 0.1, which is  considerably lower                                                              
than 0.8.   He explained,  "What can  happen with exponentials  is                                                              
small changes in the inputs make huge changes in the result."                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR.  DICKINSON remarked  that 2005  was  the first  year in  which                                                              
about half  of the [oil] production  on the North Slope  was below                                                              
the  economic  limit.    "In other  words,"  he  said,  "half  the                                                              
production  on the North  Slope was  needed to  cover the  cost on                                                              
the North  Slope."   He stated  that according  to the  prediction                                                              
made by  Department of  Revenue (DOR),  as much  as 80  percent of                                                              
the oil on the  North Slope will not have a production  tax by the                                                              
year 2020.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. DICKINSON  said that in  the early  1990s the ELF  for Prudhoe                                                              
Bay  was close  to one,  but it  has been  slowly declining  every                                                              
year since then  as production falls.  This same  trend applies to                                                              
the ELFs for all  the other North Slope oil fields,  with a slight                                                              
raise predicted in  2010 when the Point Thompson  field is planned                                                              
to come online.   He said that every year there  is less oil found                                                              
in  Prudhoe  Bay  and more  oil  found  elsewhere;  therefore  the                                                              
weighted average  between the two  leans more heavily  towards the                                                              
"elsewhere" category.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
5:17:39 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. DICKINSON explained  the concept of Best Well  Produces, which                                                              
is  the  production  function  that the  [oil  industry]  uses  to                                                              
maximize the amount  of oil that can be put into  the Trans-Alaska                                                              
Pipeline System  (TAPS).   He said, "[The  oil companies]  look at                                                              
all the wells  that they have  [that] could be producing,  or that                                                              
are producing,  and they try to  find the one that's going  to put                                                              
the most ... oil  in the line."  Production facilities,  which are                                                              
needed  to  turn  well  fluid  into  quality  oil,  are  presently                                                              
constrained  by the  amount of  gas they  have to  handle.   Eight                                                              
billion cubic  feet per day  (cfd) [of  well fluid] goes  into the                                                              
central compression  plant, he noted,  "and the ability  to handle                                                              
that  ...  is what  is  the  real  constraint  on the  ability  to                                                              
produce  gas  on  the  North  Slope."    He  said  that  the  [oil                                                              
industry] wants to  shut in a well that is producing  a lot of gas                                                              
and  not much  oil,  and  bring  on a  fresh  new well  that  will                                                              
produce a lot of oil and not much gas.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
5:20:01 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. DICKINSON  pointed out that  the amount of gas  increases over                                                              
time for any well and said:                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     When  you start  out you're  getting a lot  of oil,  you                                                                   
     take the  gas off, you reinject  it, you put it  back in                                                                   
     ...  and what  happens is  you find  the gas/oil  ratios                                                                   
     [GOR]  go  up,  and  they go  up  phenomenally.  ...  In                                                                   
     general  the wells  that they're  finding  they want  to                                                                   
     shut  in are the  wells in  Prudhoe Bay.  ... Under  the                                                                   
     tax system  [DOR decided that] if  a well or a  field or                                                                   
     an entity  is producing  a lot of  oil and it's  strong,                                                                   
     if  it  has  a lot  of  production  above  the  economic                                                                   
     limit,  then it  has to  pay  a lot  of tax.   A  robust                                                                   
     field should  be able to bear  some tax.  And  those are                                                                   
     the  wells that  [the  oil  companies] are  saying,  ...                                                                   
     "These  robust  wells are  the  wells that  we  actually                                                                   
     want  to shut  in."   Then you  go out  to a  satellite.                                                                   
     These  satellites  are relatively  fresh;  they've  been                                                                   
     discovered in  the last couple  of years and by  fresh I                                                                   
     guess  I  just  mean  they   have  a  low  [GOR].    Now                                                                   
     according  to our tax  system these  wells might  have a                                                                   
     zero  ELF  or a  very  low ELF.    Our tax  system  said                                                                   
     [that]  these wells are  somehow disadvantaged...  [and]                                                                   
     need help  from our tax  system or otherwise  they won't                                                                   
     produce.   That  was the  theory  behind the  ELF.   And                                                                   
     [the oil companies]  are saying, ... "Let's  take a well                                                                   
     that  apparently under  our tax system  needs support  -                                                                   
     we're going  to call  it the Best  Well and we're  going                                                                   
     to bring  it on line  and we're going  to shut  down one                                                                   
     of  these  supposedly  robust  wells in  the  middle  of                                                                   
     Prudhoe Bay."   And fundamentally that ...  doesn't seem                                                                   
     to be what was intended by the ELF.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
5:21:38 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. DICKINSON summarized:                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     [The oil companies]  are already treating all  the wells                                                                   
     that  feed  into the  common  production  facilities  at                                                                   
     Prudhoe   Bay,   the   satellites    and   the   initial                                                                   
     participating  area, all those  wells are being  treated                                                                   
     to a  common production  function and  they are  saying,                                                                   
     "Some wells  we don't think ought to be  producing", but                                                                   
     those  are the wells  that according  to our tax  system                                                                   
     are  the  Best Wells,  the  wells  that can  afford  the                                                                   
     highest  tax.  And  they're saying  the wells they  want                                                                   
     to  bring on  are  the wells  that  our  tax system  was                                                                   
     saying  needed encouragement.   And  that's why  looking                                                                   
     at  it you  say, "There's  been a  mismatch between  the                                                                   
     tax system and the way it's operated."                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
5:22:25 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. DICKINSON  turned attention to  the idea of  giving incentives                                                              
to the  oil industry [in  order to encourage  them to  explore and                                                              
develop in  Alaska].   He remarked  that the  state needs  to have                                                              
effective incentives  that produce the desired results.   He said,                                                              
"It was  [DORs} analysis  looking at  this that  in fact  that was                                                              
not what was going on in Prudhoe Bay."                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. DICKINSON described  ELF as an imperfect proxy.   He said that                                                              
though  it would  have been  more  pertinent before  the 1989  ELF                                                              
changes,  this notion  is still  useful.   To apply  this idea,  a                                                              
company  would take  the  proxy for  its costs,  build  it into  a                                                              
volumetric function, and  then decide how good a proxy  it is.  He                                                              
presented a simplified  example of the use of ELF as  a proxy:  if                                                              
a company  is  producing 600  barrels per  day (b/d)  that can  be                                                              
sold for  $10 per barrel,  the total  revenue would  equal $6,000.                                                              
If  the actual  costs  were $3,000  then  the  profit would  equal                                                              
$3,000.    If the  price  doubled  to  $20  per barrel,  then  the                                                              
company  would   be  making  $12,000,   but  most  of   the  costs                                                              
associated with  producing a  well are not  tied to  energy costs,                                                              
he explained.   Therefore while  the actual costs stay  at $3,000,                                                              
the profits actually triple to $9,000.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
5:25:53 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. DICKINSON  reiterated  that when ELF  is used  as a  proxy for                                                              
costs,  50  percent of  production,  or  300 barrels,  will  cover                                                              
costs while 300  barrels will be given back to  the shareholder or                                                              
will be used for  further investment.  In that case,  he said that                                                              
the  company will  get $6,000  tax-free  because it  can sell  300                                                              
barrels to  cover its cost.   In summary,  he said that  as prices                                                              
go up, the company  is allowed a larger proxy cost  for its actual                                                              
cost even  though the actual  cost stays  roughly the same.   When                                                              
prices  halve the  ELF drops  lower  and the  company wouldn't  be                                                              
able to completely  cover actual costs.  However  the barrels that                                                              
the company could  sell for its costs would cover  $1,500 worth of                                                              
costs, or  half of its  costs, and the  barrels that are  sold for                                                              
profit would  also drop  to $1,500.   He remarked  that this  is a                                                              
much smaller effect,  and that "when you're halving  things you're                                                              
going  to end  with a  smaller effect  than  when you're  doubling                                                              
them."                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR.  DICKINSON stated,  "The statutes  say  that the  DOR has  the                                                              
authority  to aggregate  or, if  it's  appropriate, to  segregate,                                                              
but basically  to redefine  ... the boundaries  of what  we'll use                                                              
for calculating the  ELF.  In other words, we're  supposed to find                                                              
a ... production  set ... that has an identifiable  economic limit                                                              
factor...."    He referred  to  the  statute AS  43.55.013(j)  and                                                              
said,  "[The statute]  specifically  says  that we  can  aggregate                                                              
certain leases,  properties, or portions  of them."   He explained                                                              
that, effective  February 1,  2005, [the administration]  combined                                                              
six satellite  fields with the  Prudhoe Bay initial  participating                                                              
area (IPA) for production tax purposes.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
5:29:04 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. DICKINSON  said there  were three  reasons why the  department                                                              
decided  to  exercise its  discretion  and  ask the  producers  to                                                              
aggregate.    He said,  "The  first  [reason] was  essentially  an                                                              
argument which  I'll just  call Substance Over  Form.   We believe                                                              
... that the  field is being operated  as a single unit.   If what                                                              
you're driving  at with the  ELF is to  try to isolate  costs, ...                                                              
if in  fact the field has  a single set  of costs, then  you ought                                                              
to recognize  that; it ought  to be treated  as a single  unit for                                                              
purposes  of ELF.  ... We  believe that  brought it  more in  line                                                              
with the intent of the original legislative intent."                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
5:30:01 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. DICKINSON  said that  the second reason  for the  [Prudhoe Bay                                                              
aggregation]  change   is  due   to  measurement  concerns.     He                                                              
explained that  satellite fields that share  production facilities                                                              
do not have  meters on the  individual pipelines; the oil  is only                                                              
metered when leaving  the facility.  Therefore  the companies must                                                              
estimate the volume  of oil coming from each  individual area, and                                                              
he stated, "If you  can't figure out how much is  coming from each                                                              
then you ought to simply treat them as one."                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
5:33:56 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. DICKINSON explained  that the third reason for  the ELF change                                                              
is the persistent high oil price.  He said:                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     If you think  back to the purpose of trying  to say that                                                                   
     production  below the  economic limit  was tax-free  and                                                                   
     production  above the  economic limit  should bear  some                                                                   
     tax,  and  in  the ELF  as  it's  now  [constituted]...,                                                                   
     there  was no  way to  plug  price in  there.... It  was                                                                   
     just simply a proxy.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR.  DICKINSON  referred to  a  graph on  slide  11  of a  handout                                                              
titled,  "Economic  Limit  Factor, AS  43.55"  which  demonstrates                                                              
that oil  prices have been  higher than  usual recently.   He said                                                              
that  economists  believe  that "since  1999  we  have been  in  a                                                              
different  world than  the  world  that came  before  that."   The                                                              
average  price since  1999 has been  double the  average price  of                                                              
oil  from 1986-1999.    He opined  that  this is  an  era of  high                                                              
prices and the standard for the economic limit ought to change.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. DICKINSON continued:                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     It  ought  to  be  reflective   of  the  fact  that  the                                                                   
     economic limit,  the amount of  oil you need  to produce                                                                   
     to cover  your costs, is going  to be lower  when prices                                                                   
     are high....   One of the  things we've observed  ... is                                                                   
     that  prices   have  been  persistently   high;  they've                                                                   
     stayed high  for five years.   We don't think this  is a                                                                   
     transient  phenomenon....   As the  [DOR] thought  about                                                                   
     this application  and what we ought to do,  price played                                                                   
     a role  and the  persistent high prices  were a  part of                                                                   
     that.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
5:36:28 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. DICKINSON  referred to  slide 8  of the  handout, which  was a                                                              
graph  depicting   volume  of  oil  production  over   time.    He                                                              
explained that  Prudhoe Bay  was an  extraordinary field  that was                                                              
substantially larger  than the second  largest field.   He pointed                                                              
out that  in the early years  the Alaskan tax system  was designed                                                              
and  focused on  Prudhoe  Bay, but  over  time  other fields  have                                                              
played a  larger and larger  part in oil  production on  the North                                                              
Slope.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
5:38:04 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. DICKINSON  pointed out  that the  DOR has  been tasked  by the                                                              
governor  to determine how  Alaska compares  with other  countries                                                              
in competing  for [oil  industry investments].   He said  that DOR                                                              
has  collected nine  studies that  rate Alaska's  competitiveness,                                                              
each   completed   within   the   past   decade   with   different                                                              
methodologies.   He  briefly reviewed  the  studies, pointing  out                                                              
that one study  showed that Alaska was the least  competitive area                                                              
of  eight areas  studied while  another study  determined that  85                                                              
percent of  the areas  studied were  less competitive  than Alaska                                                              
and 15  percent were  more competitive.   He said that  generally,                                                              
Alaska is  in the mid  to high range;  there are more  places that                                                              
are  uncompetitive  compared  to  us than  there  are  competitive                                                              
places.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
5:40:22 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  DICKINSON directed  attention to  data released  in the  Wood                                                              
Mackenzie  study titled  "Global  Oil and  Gas  Risks and  Rewards                                                              
2004".  He  posited that the price  of oil affected how  the study                                                              
rated Alaska's  competitiveness.  He  pointed out that  Alaska was                                                              
the least competitive  when the oil price was $13  per barrel, and                                                              
as the  price went  up, Alaska became  more and more  competitive.                                                              
For example,  at $16  per barrel  for oil,  Alaska was  71 percent                                                              
competitive;   at  $22   per  barrel,   Alaska   was  81   percent                                                              
competitive.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. DICKINSON explained  that at high oil prices Alaska  is one of                                                              
the best  places to do  business, and at  low prices it is  one of                                                              
the  worst places  to do  business.   He  said that  Alaska has  a                                                              
regressive  system:  at  low  prices  Alaska  takes  a  very  high                                                              
percentage  and at  high prices  it takes a  very low  percentage.                                                              
He  opined that  this  was a  conscious aspect  of  the design  to                                                              
ensure cash flow to the state regardless of oil price.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
5:44:35 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR KOHRING asked  why the oil companies aren't  developing more                                                              
than  they are  since  the  oil prices  are  currently  high.   He                                                              
commented,  "I'm not seeing  a major  upsurge in their  investment                                                              
in  the state  here,  so it  suggests  to me  that  maybe ...  the                                                              
picture  is  not as  rosy  as  it's  being  pointed out  by  these                                                              
studies and by your analysis."                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR.  DICKINSON  replied  that  perhaps   projects  are  not  being                                                              
evaluated  at  these  high  prices;  they're  being  evaluated  at                                                              
stress  prices,  a lower  price,  so  companies are  enjoying  the                                                              
"windfall"  but nobody  is planning  on this  kind of price  level                                                              
continuing.   He said  that [DOR]  believes that  there will  be a                                                              
higher than normal  price in the future.  He admitted  that he too                                                              
is  mystified  as  to  why  there  hasn't  been  more  development                                                              
recently; he expected more investment at this point.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
5:46:23 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  KOHRING   raised  the  issue   of  costs   associated  with                                                              
developing  a field  before it  actually  comes online.   He  said                                                              
that when  companies are exploring  they aren't necessarily  going                                                              
to find oil;  they're going to have  a few dry wells  and so there                                                              
are potentially a lot of costs that have to be considered.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. DICKINSON  agreed  and stated  his belief  that two years  ago                                                              
the governor and  the legislature made the decision  to pay for 40                                                              
percent  of the  costs of  certain  kinds of  exploration, and  20                                                              
percent   for   other   kinds.       He   stated   that   industry                                                              
representatives  have  suggested   that  the  state  cut  back  on                                                              
restrictions  and  make  this  incentive  apply  to  any  kind  of                                                              
drilling  or  exploration.   He  opined  that intervening  at  the                                                              
exploration end can  have a more profound effect  than intervening                                                              
as the ELF does, during the production end.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
5:48:26 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GARDNER  asked what the  tax structure is  in other                                                              
places and how it compares to Alaska's.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR.  DICKINSON said  that  tax structures  can  be categorized  in                                                              
many  ways.     He   gave  the   examples  of  regressive   versus                                                              
progressive systems,  and project deals  where rates are set  on a                                                              
project-by-project  basis.  He  said that  some areas  tax profits                                                              
that are  being expatriated; if  the company is willing  to invest                                                              
money  in the country  [it  can keep all  the money],  but if  the                                                              
company  intends  to  take  the  money out  of  the  country,  the                                                              
country  places  a   high  tax  on  it.    He   opined  that  [tax                                                              
structures] are fairly fluid and changing.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
5:52:11 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MCGUIRE  remarked that  when the ELF  was conceived                                                              
the  idea was  to  encourage companies  to  continue investing  in                                                              
Alaska and to use  the resources as efficiently as  possible.  She                                                              
asked  if [DOR]  has completed  any analysis  regarding what  will                                                              
happen in future development.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. DICKINSON responded:                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     Every  year  ...  there  is   [an]  ...  ever-increasing                                                                   
     amount  of  new oil  in  there so  we  have to  be  very                                                                   
     sensitive  to the fact  that we  still believe that  our                                                                   
     forecast  has events that  we think  are going to  occur                                                                   
     ...  and  the  future  developments  on  the  line  will                                                                   
     occur.   So yes,  we are doing  that analysis.  ... It's                                                                   
     not a single  dimension, it's not as if you  can say ...                                                                   
     "High  tax   -  no  development,  low  tax   -  lots  of                                                                   
     development."  It's how you  craft it,  how you look  at                                                                   
     it.   We made  a technical decision  based on what  were                                                                   
     the  facts  in front  of  us  that  we thought  was  the                                                                   
     appropriate way to tax this field.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
5:54:36 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  DICKINSON  mentioned  that the  president  of  ConocoPhillips                                                              
Alaska,  Inc. sent  a  letter to  the  governor  asking for  [ELF]                                                              
rulings on  the satellite fields  at Alpine  so that they  can "do                                                              
their economics".                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. DICKINSON  stated that most  of the oil companies  are capital                                                              
constrained,  but will  invest capital  where  they think  they'll                                                              
get  the best  return over  time.   He opined  that the  companies                                                              
will  want to  have a  portfolio,  and perhaps  they will  "invest                                                              
some in places  that have a lot  of upside and then  some in other                                                              
places where  they expect not to  get a huge upside but  ... where                                                              
the take will not be so great during the low prices."                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
5:56:08 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  MCGUIRE stated that  very often [the  legislators]                                                              
don't   understand  the   full   implications   of  their   policy                                                              
decisions.   She noted that  in 1989 a change  was made to  ELF to                                                              
encourage development  of some marginal  fields.  She  said, "Here                                                              
we are analyzing  a very important, profound policy  decision that                                                              
you've  made   on  the  administrative   level  that   could  have                                                              
implications  that we won't  see until  20 years  from now."   She                                                              
stated  that  she  would  have  expected  oil  companies  to  have                                                              
invested more  in Alaska in recent  years with prices  being high,                                                              
since at the  high end companies  make more money in Alaska.   She                                                              
then asked  if the [DOR] considered  creating other  incentives to                                                              
encourage more investments in Alaska.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
5:58:11 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  DICKINSON stated  that these  are  issues that  DOR has  been                                                              
trying to  figure out for years.   He reminded the  committee that                                                              
the  legislature passed  an exploration  incentive recently,  plus                                                              
House Bill 61  which "put additional credits behind  a development                                                              
in Cook Inlet".  He said,                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     There  are small  things, ...  we'll have  to wait  some                                                                   
     years  to  figure  out how  successful  they  were,  but                                                                   
     there  are things  that can  be  done, [the  legislature                                                                   
     has]  done   some,  we've   thought  of  them,   they're                                                                   
     strictly within  the sense of  what we could  propose to                                                                   
     the  legislature.     It's   [DOR's]  belief  that   the                                                                   
     investments  that  are  [on  the North  Slope]  are  not                                                                   
     going  to be  negatively impacted  as  a consequence  of                                                                   
     this. ... We  believe, if folks are continuing  to bring                                                                   
     on  wells of  this  natural, they  will  continue to  do                                                                   
     that, particularly  at the  current price regime.  ... I                                                                   
     would  not  necessarily  say  that  ...  the  folks  who                                                                   
     designed  the ELF in  1989 ...  got what they  expected.                                                                   
     ...  A  lot   of  the  focus  was  on   stand-alone  ...                                                                   
     production  facilities.   What  has happened  over  time                                                                   
     is,  when  you  share  costs,  when  you  can  bring  on                                                                   
     production  and  then take  production  facilities  that                                                                   
     already  exist   on  the  North   Slope  and   put  that                                                                   
     production  into  them,  that   that's  not  what  folks                                                                   
     contemplated.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
6:01:20 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR KOHRING  remarked that  there are other  major fields  up on                                                              
the  North  Slope  such  as Kuparuk  and  Alpine,  and  they  have                                                              
satellite fields  around them too  that are like  smaller versions                                                              
of  Prudhoe  Bay.     He  expressed  concern  that   perhaps  [the                                                              
administration's  decision  to  aggregate  Prudhoe  Bay  with  its                                                              
satellites]  will set  a precedent  and be extended  to the  other                                                              
areas.    He   asked  for  further  explanation  as   to  why  the                                                              
administration  decided  to  make  a change  to  the  Prudhoe  Bay                                                              
satellites.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. DICKINSON answered:                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     In  our regulations  there's  a process  set forth  that                                                                   
     says  a  taxpayer  who is  concerned  about  the  future                                                                   
     development can  apply to us and get an  advanced letter                                                                   
     ruling ... that  says 'We will not aggregate  this field                                                                   
     ...,' essentially  giving them  some certainty  about at                                                                   
     least that aspect of their production of the taxes.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR.  DICKINSON made  the general  observation  that those  letters                                                              
generally do  apply to a great  deal of production in  fields such                                                              
as Milne  Point and Kuparuk.   He stated, "[DOR was]  very careful                                                              
that when  we took  this step, ...  we did  not overturn  ... deny                                                              
... any of  the applications that  we had ... taken and  agreed to                                                              
not aggregate with."                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
6:03:27 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR KOHRING  opined that  a stable tax  policy was  important to                                                              
give the  oil industry a  chance to predict  the future  with some                                                              
certainty.   He commented that he  thinks other oil  companies are                                                              
concerned  about whether  this  change will  be  applied to  their                                                              
fields and satellite fields as well.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR.  DICKINSON  agreed with  Chair  Kohring,  but argued  that  if                                                              
facts and situations  change, a tax policy shouldn't  be static or                                                              
frozen.   He commented that  he thought  the people who  wrote the                                                              
ELF gave the  DOR certain discretion to [make  changes if needed].                                                              
Having  said that,  he noted that  having a  consistent policy  is                                                              
important.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
6:05:18 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SAMUELS  asked  if  the ruling  not  to  aggregate                                                              
Kuparuk had been made recently.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. DICKINSON answered  that when requests have been  made under a                                                              
taxpayer   confidential    expectation,   DNR   has    kept   them                                                              
confidential.   He  stated,  "A  series of  ...  fields have  been                                                              
added, so  ... there  have been  a series  of decisions;  ... West                                                              
Sak  and Tabasco  are  older, Tarn  and  Meltwater  over the  last                                                              
couple of years."                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SAMUELS  asked  why  Kuparuk  was  not  aggregated                                                              
while Prudhoe Bay was aggregated.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. DICKINSON  stated that  Kuparuk's satellite  wells are  six to                                                              
ten miles  apart, whereas  Prudhoe Bay has  numerous wells  on the                                                              
same gravel pad,  with each well going down to  a different field.                                                              
He  remarked that  the  producers  might say  that  the wells  are                                                              
still thousands of feet apart underground, but he said:                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     Nonetheless,  if  you're focusing  on  the  superficial,                                                                   
     ... what's on  the surface, on the economics  of putting                                                                   
     together the  systems, I think you'll see  that that's a                                                                   
     very  different situation.  ...  In Kuparuk  there is  a                                                                   
     slight  difference in  ownership.   It's  not huge,  but                                                                   
     there's  a slight  difference in  ownership between  the                                                                   
     satellites and  the mother field.   So anytime  ... they                                                                   
     want  to go  use a  production facility  they've got  to                                                                   
     deal with  the fact that  these are slightly  different.                                                                   
     ... One of  the things that we saw happening  in Prudhoe                                                                   
     is, up  until 2000,  the satellites  were owned at  very                                                                   
     different  percentages than the  mother field,  and that                                                                   
     ...  impeded a  lot  of the  development.    One of  the                                                                   
     reasons  that the  producers  got together  and  created                                                                   
     what's called  an equity redetermination  and rearranged                                                                   
     everything so  that everybody owned the  same percentage                                                                   
     of  everything, was  to stop  those kind  of fights  and                                                                   
     make sure that ... everyone was aligned.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
6:08:40 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  MCGUIRE  asked, "Is  it  also possible  that  this                                                              
administration  feared that  ConocoPhillips and  others had  acted                                                              
in  reliance  on   letters  that  you  issued   to  make  business                                                              
decisions?"                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. DICKINSON stated  that the DOR has never  rescinded or altered                                                              
letters that  it previously  issued.   He asked for  clarification                                                              
of the question.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  MCGUIRE remarked,  "I just  wondered  if it  was a                                                              
case of that company  getting ... to you first ...  and asking the                                                              
question in advance,  where maybe BP and Exxon today  kind of wish                                                              
they would've asked  the question about Prudhoe Bay  and gotten it                                                              
in writing as well."                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. DICKINSON answered,                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     To go to  your last hypothetical, they probably  did but                                                                   
     I  don't want  to  go to  the first  part  and say  that                                                                   
     therefore that  first part  follows. ... Clearly  if you                                                                   
     read the regulation  ... it was contemplated  that these                                                                   
     would  be issued  beforehand,  in other  words, if  it's                                                                   
     going  to be a  factor in  the decision  to invest  then                                                                   
     you  have  the  opportunity  to get  it  before  and  to                                                                   
     insist  on  getting  the letter  before  you  make  your                                                                   
     investment.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
6:11:02 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  DICKINSON encouraged  the committee  members  to examine  the                                                              
table on  slide 16 of the  handout that included  information such                                                              
as  field  name,  daily production,  number  of  oil  wells,  ELF,                                                              
production  per well, and  taxable daily  production.   Looking at                                                              
the slide, he  pointed out that Kuparuk, which  is producing about                                                              
155,000  b/d through  450 wells,  has an  ELF of  about 0.17.   He                                                              
compared this  data to Alpine,  which produces about  100,000 b/d,                                                              
and to Northstar,  which produces about 65,000 b/d.   He commented                                                              
that  Alpine  and Northstar,  which  have  a  total of  46  wells,                                                              
together  produce about  as much  oil  as Kuparuk,  which has  450                                                              
wells.   Because  Alpine  and Northstar  are  producing such  high                                                              
volume of oil out of so few wells they have high ELFs.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
6:13:40 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR KOHRING commented  that he disagrees with the  DOR, and said                                                              
that he  hoped [the committee]  can figure out  a way to  help the                                                              
industry with  incentives.   He remarked that  there must  be some                                                              
way  "we can  stabilize the  whole  situation and  make them  feel                                                              
like they're  welcome here  to do business;  they're not  going to                                                              
be subject to unstable tax policies."                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
^OVERVIEW - DEPARTMENT OF NATURAL RESOURCES                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
6:14:49 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
BILL  VAN DYKE,  Permitting/Unit  Administrator,  Division of  Oil                                                              
and Gas,  Department of Natural  Resources, referred to  a handout                                                              
titled,   "Field   Development--What    Drives   Exploration   and                                                              
Development  Decisions?".   He  pointed  out that  slide  1 was  a                                                              
geological  slide  depicting  multiple oil  pools,  some  shallow,                                                              
some  deep, in a  given area.   He  remarked that  in Prudhoe  Bay                                                              
there  is one  very large  oil  pool in  addition  to the  smaller                                                              
ones.  He explained  that if there was only one  small oil pool in                                                              
an area,  perhaps no  one would  develop that  area; but  if there                                                              
were  four pools  it would  be more  likely that  a company  would                                                              
drill  in that area.   He  said, "The  smaller pools  at the  top,                                                              
they're more  or less  icing on  the cake  because, as  in Prudhoe                                                              
Bay, the big  oil pool supported the initial  development. ... The                                                              
smaller pools  ... can  be supported  by the previously  installed                                                              
infrastructure."                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. VAN  DYKE explained  that a  company can  access multiple  oil                                                              
pools from  a single  drill site.   He said,  "Some of  these real                                                              
high tech  wells these  days [can]  reach out  long distances  and                                                              
access relatively small pockets of oil."                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
6:19:22 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  KOHRING  asked  if  the technology  exists  to  drill  from                                                              
outside of  the Arctic  National Wildlife  Refuge (ANWR)  into the                                                              
area and not disturb the surface at all.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. VAN DYKE  stated that there  are some places where  wells have                                                              
been  drilled five  miles horizontally,  but such  wells are  very                                                              
expensive.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR KOHRING remarked,  "That might dispel the  whole argument as                                                              
far   as  the   environmentalists   are  concerned,   as  far   as                                                              
destruction of  wildlife and potential  spills if we  just drilled                                                              
on this  side of the  border and just  ran directional  wells five                                                              
or ten miles into ANWR."                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
6:20:06 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. VAN  DYKE stated that  at the western  end of the  Prudhoe Bay                                                              
unit there  are drill sites that  access multiple oils  pools.  He                                                              
turned  to the  slide  3  of the  handout  to show  a  generalized                                                              
geological cross-section  of the central  North Slope.   The fifth                                                              
slide was  a map of  the Prudhoe Bay  field, which he  said covers                                                              
about  248,000 acres  and  has over  100  individual  oil and  gas                                                              
leases  in it.   He  remarked that  the  map shows  that the  main                                                              
Prudhoe  Bay  oil  pool  covers   almost  the  whole  unit.    The                                                              
satellite  pools are  much  smaller  than the  main  pool and  are                                                              
scattered around the unit area.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR.  VAN  DYKE  then  turned  to slide  6  of  the  handout  which                                                              
depicted a  map of the  Prudhoe Bay unit  surface facilities.   He                                                              
commented  that  Prudhoe  Bay  is  a  small  city,  or  industrial                                                              
complex.    Slide  7  is another  map  of  the  Prudhoe  Bay  unit                                                              
depicting   the  shared   facilities,   which  include   gathering                                                              
centers,  flow   stations,  power   plants,  and  a   gas-handling                                                              
complex.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
6:25:06 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR KOHRING  asked if  there is  a danger of  losing gas  in the                                                              
process  of  reinjecting  it  and   if  the  gas  will  be  easily                                                              
accessible in the future.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. VAN DYKE  responded that the  gas is reinjected back  into the                                                              
Prudhoe  Bay gas  cap  where there  has  been  a gas  accumulation                                                              
already in place for millions of years.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
6:26:33 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. VAN DYKE pointed  out that in 1977 there were  multiple leases                                                              
[in Prudhoe Bay]  owned by different companies  or combinations of                                                              
companies.   He reminded  the committee  that  the large main  oil                                                              
pool spreads  underneath all of the  leases, so all lessees  own a                                                              
piece  of the main  pool and  they each  got their  fair share  of                                                              
production from their  leases.  However this approach  didn't work                                                              
for development  of the smaller  satellite pools.  He  pointed out                                                              
that  a company  that  discovered  a small  pool  but didn't  have                                                              
interest  in the  surface facilities  was  in a  bind because  the                                                              
companies that do  own the surface facilities don't  really have a                                                              
reason to help the small company.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. VAN DYKE explained:                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     People  realized  early on  at  Prudhoe Bay  that  there                                                                   
     were  lots of  these  satellite pools.    It's not  that                                                                   
     they've  just been discovered  in the  last five  years;                                                                   
     people  drilled   through  these  satellites   over  the                                                                   
     years, since  the discovery  of Prudhoe Bay,  literally.                                                                   
     And so  they realized  early on that  there has to  be a                                                                   
     better  way to do  business.   And there  were a lot  of                                                                   
     negotiations  over  the year  and  finally in  the  year                                                                   
     2000  there   was  a  successful  conclusion   to  those                                                                   
     negotiations  and  it  was a  common  equity  agreement.                                                                   
     And what that  means is that ... every company  owns the                                                                   
     same  interest in  every lease.   They  figured out  ...                                                                   
     what interest  was fair for each company to  own in each                                                                   
     lease instead  of owning separate  leases.  And  now the                                                                   
     companies  don't care  where  the satellites  are,  they                                                                   
     don't care where  the gas cap is for Prudhoe  Bay, where                                                                   
     the  oil rim  is  for Prudhoe  Bay,  they  own the  same                                                                   
     interest  in  everything  and  they also  own  the  same                                                                   
     interest in the  facilities on the surface.   So now ...                                                                   
     it's  fine  for  the best  satellite  to  produce  first                                                                   
     because everyone  owns a common interest  in everything.                                                                   
     And  there are  a few  exceptions  ... there  are a  few                                                                   
     facilities  in  Prudhoe  Bay   that  the  common  equity                                                                   
     agreement  does  not cover,  but  they  are ...  in  the                                                                   
     minority....  With  this  common   equity  agreement  at                                                                   
     Prudhoe  Bay ...  the companies  really have  aggregated                                                                   
     their  interests;  they've  taken  all  of  their  lease                                                                   
     interests and  merged them into one big pot.   Everybody                                                                   
     owns the  same interest  in everything.   And it  really                                                                   
     changed  the way  business  is done  at  Prudhoe Bay;  I                                                                   
     don't think  it's any coincidence that, starting  in the                                                                   
     year 2000 after  this common equity agreement,  that you                                                                   
     just  see the  satellite production  blossom at  Prudhoe                                                                   
     Bay, because  before that there was a lot  of commercial                                                                   
     negotiation  that  went back  and  forth ...  really  on                                                                   
     access  to surface facilities.   The  people that  owned                                                                   
     the satellite  interests could drill them; they  had the                                                                   
     right  to drill their  leases, they've  always had  that                                                                   
     right  and they'll  continue  to  have that  right,  but                                                                   
     they  didn't  have the  right  to  use the  ...  surface                                                                   
     facilities.  And now that is ... not an issue.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
6:30:59 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  VAN  DYKE  remarked  that the  common  equity  agreement  has                                                              
become "kind  of the way to do  business on the North  Slope these                                                              
days," and now  similar agreements have been made  at other units.                                                              
He opined that the agreements really help business.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
6:31:33 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  VAN  DYKE  turned attention  to  slide  10,  which  contained                                                              
information on ownership percentages.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR.  VAN  DYKE,  in  response  to   a  query  from  Representative                                                              
Gardner,  explained   that  the  PA   on  the  slide   stands  for                                                              
"participating  area",  which is  how  the Department  of  Natural                                                              
Resources (DNR) describes the separate pools.  He stated:                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     It is  important from  a lease  standpoint which  leases                                                                   
     are  included  in  which pools  because  they  may  have                                                                   
     different  royalty  rates;  they  may  have  net  profit                                                                   
     share  provisions  on some  and  not  the other.    Even                                                                   
     though  the  owners  have a  common  equity  across  ...                                                                   
     Prudhoe  Bay,  there  still  may  be  different  royalty                                                                   
     provisions   for    the   different   pools    and   the                                                                   
     participating areas are the way we identify the pools.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
6:33:10 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  VAN DYKE  commented that  slide 12  contains a  stratigraphic                                                              
column depicting the  types of geology at different  depths of the                                                              
North  Slope.  In  response to  Chair Kohring,  he confirmed  that                                                              
the heavy oil is mostly found in sandstone.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR.  VAN DYKE  said that  slide  13 contains  a  map of  satellite                                                              
fields  in  the  Prudhoe  Bay  unit.   He  pointed  out  that  the                                                              
satellites are at  the west end of the unit and  they overlie each                                                              
other, so  the same  drills sites  can be  used to drill  multiple                                                              
wells.    He remarked  that  the  sharing  of facilities  is  very                                                              
important.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR.  VAN  DYKE  explained  that  slide  14  titled,  "Multilateral                                                              
Wellbore Completions",  depicts a  "fancy multilateral  well" with                                                              
several arms that  could be reaching the same area  in a given oil                                                              
pool or  different pools  entirely.  He  commented that  this type                                                              
of well  is expensive  to drill,  but it produces  a lot  more oil                                                              
than a conventional well.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
6:36:02 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. VAN DYKE said:                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     Slide  15  ...  shows  the   different  satellite  pools                                                                   
     within  Prudhoe  Bay  unit   ...  from  a  map  view  or                                                                   
     location surface  view.  Most of the satellites  are out                                                                   
     there  at  the   west  end  and  production   goes  into                                                                   
     Gathering Center  2 along with  a lot of the  production                                                                   
     from  the main pool  at Prudhoe  Bay.   Then the gas  is                                                                   
     all sent  over to  the ... central  gas facility  in the                                                                   
     central compression plant.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
6:36:40 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  VAN  DYKE  returned  to the  beginning  of  the  handout  and                                                              
stated:                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     I  tried  to   jot  down  some  ideas  on   what  drives                                                                   
     investment  ... up on  the North Slope  ... and  I don't                                                                   
     think there's  any doubt about  it that it's  the chance                                                                   
     to  make a profit,  at least  under the  system we  have                                                                   
     here in  Alaska. ...  [The State  of Alaska leases]  ...                                                                   
     land  out  to  third  parties   and  ...  to  for-profit                                                                   
     companies,  and they're  up  there to  make some  money.                                                                   
     ... It's no  different than WalMart or  Alaska Airlines.                                                                   
     They're  accountable to their  shareholders. ...  What's                                                                   
     different in  their business model is that  they have to                                                                   
     go  in assuming  that there  are going  to be  a lot  of                                                                   
     failures, at  least in the  exploration stage ...  and a                                                                   
     few  successes.   But if  that  ... is  built into  your                                                                   
     business  model to start  with, you  can still be  quite                                                                   
     successful; you  just have to plan that you're  going to                                                                   
     drill  some  dry  holes.     That's  just  part  of  the                                                                   
     business.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
6:37:45 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  KOHRING commented,  "Let's  hope they  continue to  achieve                                                              
good profits  but let's make it  win-win so we can get  some money                                                              
as well for our treasury."                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. VAN DYKE gave a brief overview of the oil and gas lifecycle:                                                                
exploration, delineation, development, and then production.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. VAN  DYKE, in response  to Chair Kohring,  stated that  he was                                                              
not sure when  wells began to be  drilled on the North  Slope, but                                                              
he said that the  drilling started south of Prudhoe  Bay.  He said                                                              
that  [the explorers]  got their  leads  in the  Brooks Range  and                                                              
then followed them north.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. VAN DYKE returned  to the topic of the oil  and gas life cycle                                                              
and said:                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     This life  cycle ... is repeated  over and over  and you                                                                   
     build on your  existing infrastructure and you  build on                                                                   
     your added  knowledge.  You  gain information  over time                                                                   
     and in some  cases you gain a competitive  position, ...                                                                   
     if   you    have   better   contracts    with   drilling                                                                   
     contractors,  or you  brought your own  drilling rig  up                                                                   
     there, maybe  you can do  business a little  better than                                                                   
     the guy  next door.  ... And this  is what we're  trying                                                                   
     to foster:  getting more people  involved in  this cycle                                                                   
     and   ... keeping  it continuing....  The facts  change,                                                                   
     conditions  change. ...  We have  a lot  of people  that                                                                   
     buy  leases; most  of those  leases  don't get  drilled.                                                                   
     If you  look at the statistics,  ... most leases  at the                                                                   
     end of  their primary  term ...  expire; they come  back                                                                   
     to the  state and we  lease them again.   And then  some                                                                   
     of them do  get drilled and they're dry  holes, and they                                                                   
     get  turned  back  in  to  the  state.    Some  projects                                                                   
     progress  towards  development,   but  just  don't  ever                                                                   
     quite  get  there.    And then  some  projects  go  into                                                                   
     development  and  they  get shut  in  because  something                                                                   
     happened,  because of the  risk involved and  production                                                                   
     just    wasn't   quite   what    folks   thought.    ...                                                                   
     Opportunities  change,  business practices  change,  and                                                                   
     economics  change.   I don't think  it's something  that                                                                   
     you  want to  fault  the Alaska  system  for, it's  just                                                                   
     part of the normal business practice.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
6:40:43 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  VAN DYKE  then  turned to  the  topic of  risk  on the  North                                                              
Slope.  He remarked  that during the exploration phase  there is a                                                              
lot  more  risk  because, regardless  of  predictions,  a  company                                                              
doesn't really  know if there is oil  until it drills a  well.  He                                                              
stated that  for people  in the  oil and gas  business, risk  is a                                                              
part of everyday  life, and companies are  constantly benchmarking                                                              
and  revisiting their  operations because  conditions change  over                                                              
time.  He said:                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     An  enhanced  oil  recovery  project  that  didn't  look                                                                   
     profitable  a few years ago  maybe does look  profitable                                                                   
     now.   Or  in-field drilling  opportunities.   Or  these                                                                   
     Prudhoe  Bay  satellites.  ...  It's not  that  the  oil                                                                   
     wasn't there;  ... there wasn't a commercial  way to get                                                                   
     it  produced  and  use the  surface  facilities  at  the                                                                   
     time.    There   is  today  and  those   satellites  are                                                                   
     producing ... close to 50,000 barrels a day.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
6:42:29 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  VAN DYKE  continued  discussing the  topics  outlined in  the                                                              
handout.  He remarked:                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     What's going  to separate the  winners from  the losers?                                                                   
     Certainly  there  is no  simple  answer  to that.    But                                                                   
     again  I think,  under the  system we  have today,  [oil                                                                   
     and gas companies]  are going to have to  make a profit.                                                                   
     If  they're  going  to  move forward  on  a  project  or                                                                   
     expand  a project they're  going to  do it because  they                                                                   
     can  make  a profit.  ...  Different  companies  measure                                                                   
     profit    differently.       There's   all   sorts    of                                                                   
     indicators....   When [the  companies] are looking  at a                                                                   
     project,   whether   it's  a   satellite   pool  or   an                                                                   
     exploration well,  ... they're going to look  at ... the                                                                   
     size of  the oil accumulation,  because that's  going to                                                                   
     affect  their total cash  flow.   They're going to  look                                                                   
     at  the flow  rates  from the  wells,  because ...  that                                                                   
     affects  the timing  of the cash  flow.... They're  also                                                                   
     going  to  look  at  the  ...   location  [relative]  to                                                                   
     existing   infrastructure   and   access   to   existing                                                                   
     infrastructure.  ...  Things  on the  North  Slope  have                                                                   
     changed in that  regard recently too, because  there are                                                                   
     these   facility-sharing  agreements   now,  there   are                                                                   
     common  equity   agreements.    The  infrastructure   is                                                                   
     available  now, and there  are ... commercial  contracts                                                                   
     out  there where third  parties can  understand what  it                                                                   
     will take to access that infrastructure.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
6:43:49 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. VAN  DYKE remarked that  there are  some big oilfields  on the                                                              
North Slope  that have  not been developed;  they are  offshore of                                                              
ANWR in  relatively deep  water in  the federal Outer  Continental                                                              
Shelf (OCS)  area.   He opined that  the fields  are big  but very                                                              
remote and therefore  will be expensive to develop,  "and so today                                                              
they just  sit there."   Additionally there  is some  very viscous                                                              
oil in the Ugnu  formation around Kuparuk, Prudhoe  Bay, and Milne                                                              
Point,  but he  said  that it's  not  economic  to develop  today.                                                              
Returning  to  the topic  of  wells  offshore  of ANWR,  he  said,                                                              
"Those accumulations,  probably even if they had a  zero tax and a                                                              
zero royalty ...  those fields are probably uneconomic  to develop                                                              
today. ...  There's not a  whole lot the  government can  do other                                                              
than to pay someone to produce them."                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
6:45:34 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. VAN  DYKE opined  that oil and  gas companies  need to  have a                                                              
good cash  flow model  that incorporates  risk,  and they  need to                                                              
evaluate  the risks  properly.   He commented  that the  companies                                                              
also  need to  make a  profit, but  profit is  different for  each                                                              
company.    He   said  that  the  companies  all   forecast  price                                                              
differently and evaluate the risks differently.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
There being  no further business  before the committee,  the House                                                              
Special  Committee  on  Oil  and  Gas  meeting  was  adjourned  at                                                              
6:47:58 PM.                                                                                                                   

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